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Difference between thesis and scholarly paper?
I'm currently in an M.Ed. program where we take a capstone course during our final semester. It includes a portfolio of our work and a final "scholarly paper." The examples I've seen from other graduates are between 20-30 pages. But this is a non-thesis program. So what's the difference? I finish spring 2020 and I'm wondering if I should put this final paper on my resume/cv and how I would word it?
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Thesis vs. non-thesis masters? How important is it? ( self.GradSchool )
submitted 11 months ago by sunstrike11
I'm currently in the beginning stages of mastering out of my PhD program and I am choosing between a thesis or non-thesis masters. For reference, I'm a year into my program and have been working on practice sets for the past year, so nothing data producing.
At this point, I'd be starting my thesis project pretty much from scratch. Currently, there is no available data for me to work on and when it will be available is dependent on other people in my lab. From there, it depends on how fast I work, but I'll probably graduate in 2025.
For the non-thesis, I need to take ~16 more credits, so I can probably finish fall of 2024. I'd also be funded through TAing in my department.
After graduating, I'd like to work in industry and move out of my field and into data science. My current degree is in biology, and my project is in structural biology (so a good amount of computation). I have previous internship and project experience in data science which might help.
I'm interested in working on projects, but not necessarily directing a whole research project from hypothesis to results.
How important is it to have a thesis master's in industry? I am not on the best terms with my PI, due to personality clashes, so is it worth the extra year + of working with them? Or will a non-thesis master's in industry do just fine?
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[–] [deleted] 4 points 5 points 6 points 11 months ago (0 children)
I'm currently pursuing a non-thesis master's and I was told that it would be more difficult (but not impossible) for me to pursue a PhD in my field which is similar to yours. So I think you should go for the non-thesis option unless you are dead set on a PhD.
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When can a thesis get rejected or asked for a major revision?
I am planning to submit my thesis next month. I have 4 published SCI-indexed journals (Elsevier, Springer, IEEE transaction, World Scientific) and 2 more journals communicated (all first authors). My thesis is on Bioinformatics and Computational Biology. The thesis will be sent to two external examiners about whom I will not know (Institute policy). I am fearing what will happen if my thesis somehow gets rejected (I do not know why I am so scared right now).
Should I be worried that my thesis may get rejected?
Also, what happens when the thesis gets major revision?
Do I have to do the corrections and send the thesis again?
When a reviewer is checking a thesis, usually what does he want in it?
Does he read the entire thesis line by line?
Kindly share any incident of thesis rejections if you know of any, why it was rejected and how the person finally got his degree.
- peer-review
- thesis-committee
- bioinformatics
- 5 Surely you have been a PhD student long enough to have asked other students what they went through? Have you asked your supervisor? Supervisors don’t usually allow submission until the work is ready and you should have agreed the work with your supervisor. – Solar Mike Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 5:00
- 4 With several journal publications in solid or better journals, it's very unlikely to be rejected. If the supervisor gave you green light, they assume you are fine. It is good to be anxious to some extent, but at this stage, according to what you report, it does not look like an existential matter. Of course, we do not know the details of the case, but I do not see red flags here. – Captain Emacs Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:43
- 5 where are you? Thesis submission and marking processes vary wildly between different academic cultures. – Chris H Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 10:55
- 3 I have never heard of a PhD thesis being rejected. It would reflect catastrophically on the advisor and damage the relationship between the advisor and other examiners. Usually, submission of the thesis needs approval by the advisor. You can trust your advisor to recognize if a thesis is such utter trash that it can be rejected. – user9482 Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 12:27
- 1 This is a question you should be asking to your advisor and committee. It is not a question for strangers on the internet. – David Ketcheson Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:04
4 Answers 4
This very much depends on which system you are in. I can answer from the point of view of the UK system.
It is very un likely your thesis will be outright rejected.
It is very likely you will be asked to make some corrections.
Yes, you will have to make the corrections and send the thesis again.
Requirements for a thesis are generally set out by the university. They normally specify you must have made a "novel contribution to the field" and the work is, in principle, of publication quality. Or something similar.
Yes, a good examiner will read the thesis line by line.
There are five possible outcomes from the examination of a thesis.
- Accepted without corrections
- Minor corrections - generally textual changes only - 3 month time limit
- Major corrections - might involve some reanalysis, but no new experiments - 6 month time limit.
- Resubmit - this thesis does not pass, but contains sufficient material to convince the examiners you are capable of passing. You are giving leave to rewrite and resubmit the thesis. May involve new experiments - often 1 year time limit.
- Fail (either with or without a Master of Philosophy degree).
Almost all students are given minor or major corrections - I'd say 90% fall into these categories. Slightly more in minor corrections probably. Maybe 8% get no corrections, and perhaps 1.5% are asked to resubmit. Very, very few fail outright.
- I'm in the UK system as well. I've been supervisor and examiner and I've seen what happened to other students. From my experience 1.5% is far too low a percentage for resubmission. I'd say 10% or even more. I have made this decision as examiner, and had it made by other examiners for one of my students (although that was apparently not based on the thesis in the first place, more on viva performance); I have examined less than 10 and supervised 5-10. I've also seen this happening in other cases. I agree with the rest, by and large. – Christian Hennig Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 12:37
- 4 Disciplinary differences I guess - I've never done it, nor had it done to one of my students. Of my colleagues, I only know of one or two occasions where they have given out a re-submission. – Ian Sudbery Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 12:55
- This would match my US experience in biology. I would say the number for anything worse than "major corrections" is effectively zero when the advisor supports the thesis , and 4 or 5 become much more likely if not. Most who would otherwise fall into 4 or especially 5 would likely not even submit a thesis. – Bryan Krause ♦ Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 21:51
Four published journal articles and two under review, that sounds impressive to me! It's natural to fear your thesis will get rejected, it's natural to be scared: Search this forum for impostor syndrome
Also, what happens when the thesis gets major revision? Do I have to do the corrections and send the thesis again?
That'll likely depend on your institute and country. I suspect you'll need to make corrections in a timely fashion, perhaps your examiners will need to check they are satisfied.
A novel (valid) contribution to your field (just like a journal article), mastery of the material, and a broad understand of your domain.
That depends on the examiner.
The other answers have generally good advice, to address a specific question you had:
I only know of one thesis that was completely rejected. In this case:
- The student had a very weak publication record.
- The student decided it was time for them to graduate (not the advisor).
- The procedure for a defense didn't require the advisors signature, so they submitted the form and schedule the exam without their consent. (And initially without their knowledge.)
- The advisor told them they weren't ready to graduate.
- At the defense I'm told they couldn't answer even basic questions on the field properly.
- After a year they were able to try one more time, and nothing changed, so they failed out of the program.
From what you've posted, this is far from your situation. So, while occasion anxiety is understandable, it is probably unwarranted in your case.
I also know of one case where someone's PhD was found to highly overlap with another PhD in another area with completely different terminology. (Math vs CS) That was awful for everyone involved - in that case they were given more time by the committee to come back and address it, and eventually they graduated.
It is possible but unlikely that your thesis is rejected.
Although probably technically illegal, it is also probable that any sensible examiner would quietly contact your supervisor before submitting a report if there was a major problem with the thesis, if only to make sure there was no major misunderstanding and avoid embarrassment for the student but also for those like the thesis director who allowed the thesis to go forward. My experience is that examiners will prefer to hold their noses and accept a marginal or bad thesis rather than cause trouble and reject the submission.
The most likely outcome is that you will be asked to make minor revisions, and then your school will have some procedure to handle this time-wise. Usually the examiners do not need to see the thesis again when resubmitted after minor corrections.
Depending on how closely the thesis is examined, it may be accepted as is, but this very rare in my experience, and not necessarily desirable and one wonders how closely the examiner did his/her job. You want the examiner to engage with and improve the outcome to raise the visibility of the results.
In 35 or so years of experience, I know for certain of only three cases where a thesis was rejected: in two instances a document was submitted over the objection of the thesis director; in the third instance a real error was found in the thesis. Since this is exceptionally rare, you tend to hear about such instances when they happen. Thankfully, I was not involved directly in any of the situations.
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COMMENTS
A Doctoral Thesis is usually 100+ pages long document that outlines their findings and research. They usually have to defend their work and findings in front of a committee of experts in that field. If the experts deem the thesis to be good work, that contributes to the field the student will pass. More on the Thesis:
The thesis had to be completely written and defended in that time frame. Half of that time included daily courses, so you can imagine how anxiety inducing that was. I started in August 2016 and by September 2018 I was totally burned out and depressed. One of the causes was the thesis theme, obstetric violence.
The best thesis/dissertation is a done thesis/dissertation. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If it's good enough for your advisor and committee, that's what matters, and you're wasting your time on anything significantly beyond that.
It seems research experience itself is what is most valuable. I had an option of doing a "capstone" project or thesis. The project was essentially the same, but without the traditional thesis formatting and length. It resulted in a presentation, and a smaller publication, I think it was a letters of neurosci or something.
Showing, through your understanding of the literature, that you've identified a gap in knowledge. For a masters this doesn't have to be some huge breakthrough, even just citing a publication that concluded "further research / a bigger database is needed to answer the questions" and then being very clear that you filled that gap and how. 5.
Although I passed my Master's Thesis today, it doesn't feel good at all. Interpersonal Issues. I had my Master's Thesis defense today. I should be relieved and happy, but I feel so so sad. I know that I did not do enough research work. Felt like the committee just gave me a freebie. I know my work is insufficient because I have been working ...
Thesis and professional master's programs have different end goals. Research/thesis masters programs exist to teach you how to do research (either in academia or industry) and potentially prepare you for a PhD. Professional masters programs exist to teach you advanced skills that will be useful in a future industry career.
a thesis is presented at the culmination of a master's program, whereas, as dissertation is presented to earn a PhD. Won't know until you try. I think the answer you are looking for is "depth". You can imagine that a research proposal for a master's program and a Ph.D. program could be exactly the same, i.e., proposing a set of experiments to ...
A Masters thesis is not expected to be as refined/novel as a PhD thesis. You're not supposed to become a world-expert on a specialized topic. You're supposed to demonstrate that you can read a lot and write pretty well and finish a project, and overcome the inevitable challenges that pop up during that project.
What exactly is a thesis like for a masters student? What would it entail? Hey guys, so I was poking around my schools site for CIS related grad programs, and I just noticed that for the masters program, they offer a project or thesis option, with slight differences between the two.
How does a Master's Thesis work? Hello all, I am currently applying to Master's programs for next fall. I was wondering if my personal statement should be written differently than people applying for PhDs. Some of the positions are thesis, and some require independent research.
Sharing your (master's) thesis? How safe is it? Social Science. So this is a recurrent question I ask myself since I finished my master's in 2022: some people are very interested in my thesis and eager to read it, like friends, people who work on the topic, and people I met at a couple of conferences in which I presented my thesis.
A PhD would develop a new method. Or the master's level work might be one chapter of what would be a three chapter PhD dissertation - one of the easier chapters. A masters thesis is usually based on only 1 year of full-time research and often has no requirement for originality.
How did you choose your thesis topic? I'm curious to how everyone came up with their graduate thesis topics (whether it be Masters, PhD, or both). Was it given to you by your supervisor? Were you given some choices? Did you come it with yourself, and if so, how did you come to deciding on the thesis topic you are working on now? 11 Share Add ...
What should I write my Masters thesis on? I am getting my Masters in English Literature and the final step is my thesis, a 60+ page paper. I am trying to decide what I should write on. Was initially thinking Hemingway, but with such an over analyzed author it would be impossible to say anything new. So, people of reddit, any of you have suggestions for more recent, or older and somewhat ...
Nobody cares about 99% of MS thesis unless it is peer-reviewed and published. I would say the same for a PhD thesis but the difference is that many PhD theses are publishable materials, just not at the time they are done. Reply reply. Valaxx73.
I feel like my masters thesis will be garbage I'm currently struggling with summarizing previous research and identifying the potential knowledge gaps of my topic.
If you do a thesis of publishable quality, and you do publish it, then that's absolutely going to support your application down the line. If it isn't published, it won't matter much to most doc admissions. But it may still serve you in helping you decide if doing research is the path you want. You could also work as a lab RA and get ...
The thesis statement is usually a part of the research paper and not vice-versa. A scholarly paper can be a component of a thesis, like a chapter in a book. A paper based thesis can be easier to defend because if your paper makes it into a reputable journal it's already been peer reviewed and accepted.
The point of the master thesis is that you should demonstrate that you can investigate a scientific question under supervision (or something similar - check the regulations, if you wish to know).
The thesis and thesis defense is less about having the results you wanted to have, and more about demonstrating that you know how to do good quality research and can work on that somewhat independently.
For the non-thesis, I need to take ~16 more credits, so I can probably finish fall of 2024. I'd also be funded through TAing in my department. After graduating, I'd like to work in industry and move out of my field and into data science. My current degree is in biology, and my project is in structural biology (so a good amount of computation).
Should I be worried that my thesis may get rejected? Also, what happens when the thesis gets major revision? Do I have to do the corrections and send the thesis again? When a reviewer is checking a thesis, usually what does he want in it? Does he read the entire thesis line by line?